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TheMUBM
AHSFHS Master Researcher

75 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2019 :  21:06:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Again, not indicative of all schools but Madison Academy per their website boasts 41 state championship appearances since 1999 and 21 titles. I went to a pretty good athletic public school in the North and we have been existence since 69 and I am pretty sure (maybe forgetting 1 or 2) we only have maybe like 5 state titles. Certainly other public schools can boast more, but since 99?
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cwak
AHSFHS Superstar Researcher

946 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2019 :  22:04:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree private schools in the north have found their footing. All I was pointing out was its only been recently past 10-15 years for Madison Academy and very recently for others. Not trying to diminish it.
My point was more of we don't have the long history, decades of dominate private schools like the south. Also that good public programs can lure athletes just the same as private ones. The difference being with public schools a family has to move not always the case for private schools.
Another thing I think a lot more programs would more likely move down than up, if competitive balance was across the board. After the creation of 7A there were teams that haven't adjusted to their new classes.
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TheMUBM
AHSFHS Master Researcher

75 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2019 :  22:10:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well you and I both know Public schools "recruit" but it has to be done in a cloak and dagger sense. Look what happened to Muscle Shoals a few years back when the kid from Wilson openly told the Times Daily he was contacted by MS. They were punished and he had to return to Wilson, but Mars Hill is loaded with kids from Muscle Shoals, Brooks, Central, etc. And regardless of what they said or did to get the kid, there are no repercussions. David is being more judicious in his criticism, but I won't be. It is simply not the same.

Edited by - TheMUBM on 10/31/2019 22:14:34
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cwak
AHSFHS Superstar Researcher

946 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2019 :  22:23:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Madison Academy is kinda on an island there with that stat wow. Also all but 3 of those were after 2011. Shows how out of whack the classifications were the last 10 years before the multiplier was added they were like a 5A program playing 3A competition.

Seeing that and how much successful private teams have gotten recently, in the north. Makes me think the school vouchers program has had to had an effect as well. In the north more dramatically. No?
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cwak
AHSFHS Superstar Researcher

946 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2019 :  22:44:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yeah; Im kinda libertarian about recruiting. We're seeing it at the college level. Let students and parents decide where they want to go. Right now the enforcement of the rules is someone turning it in like a child tattle tailing.
People who have means will move or transfer if they want to. As long as a kid is in good academic and conduct standing and abiding by the systems requirements arbitrary rules shouldn't stop them from participating to me. To make sure everyone is following the same rules have no rule.

Edited by - cwak on 10/31/2019 22:44:44
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TheMUBM
AHSFHS Master Researcher

75 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2019 :  22:58:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
But that is the thing, they are not held to the same standard. Could you imagine if Alabama was told "recruit all you want, there is nothing wrong with it." but Auburn was told they couldn't they could only choose from those who chose to play there? I mean yeah Auburn would do everything they could within the rules and beyond (sacrificing sanctions) to keep up. It is just a different playing field that they are on.
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cwak
AHSFHS Superstar Researcher

946 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2019 :  14:47:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's how it is now. I say let the school systems decide who and how they let students in. At least they would have the opportunity to do what private schools do if they choose instead of being held to different standards.
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spartan91
AHSFHS Superstar Researcher

115 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2019 :  15:20:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually there are a lot of public school systems that do have open enrollment. Those students have to provide their own transportation and pay tuition to the school system.

Also some schools have online enrollment and as far as I know those students are eligible for athletics. Although that ended up hurting Eufaula this past reclassification because they were moved up to 6A due to those students being counted.

Edited by - spartan91 on 11/01/2019 15:23:16
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cwak
AHSFHS Superstar Researcher

946 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2019 :  16:05:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How about region predictions. I'll try and stick to what I think I know. I don't foresee much class movement in the upper classes in the north. I would like to see better geographic regions.

7A
region 4 largely stays the same with only Florence and Albertville swapping places
6A
Could become a mess if Albertville moves and Scottsboro Southside stay 5A and Austin 7A. There's no way not to have at least one far flung region.
5A
my wheelhouse
Region 8
Arab, Boaz, Brewer, Crossville, Douglas, Guntersville, Scottsboro
Region 7
Ardmore, East Limestone, Hamilton, Jasper, Lawrence Co., Madison Co., Russelville,
Region 6
Alexandria, Corner, Etowah, Hayden, Mortimer Jordan, Sardis, Southside, West Point
Region 5
Center Point, Moody, Munford, Saint Clair County, Springville, John Carroll, Ramsay
Region 4
Briarwood, Central Clay County, Fairfield, Pleasant Grove, Sylacauga, Wenonah, Woodlawn

Edited by - cwak on 11/01/2019 16:09:32
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TheMUBM
AHSFHS Master Researcher

75 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2019 :  16:29:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you're right, that region 7 in 5A looks pretty brutal. I think John Ritter has Russellville going in the right direction, but Madison County and East are always pretty strong, Jasper is a juggernaut right now and Lawrence County is sneaky dangerous. I am not sure if Hutto is a Senior or not at LCHS, but that kid can sling the ball around.
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dparker
Forum Admin

983 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2019 :  16:54:31  Show Profile  Visit dparker's Homepage  Reply with Quote
One thing to remember that could make a few unexpected swings in enrollment is that for the first time the AHSAA will be counting 9-11 grades in their totals instead of 10-12. I have no idea why they made this change. Maybe some one can explain it to me.

But, it could change the numbers for some schools I suppose.
You can find the article here near the bottom of the page.

http://ahsaa.com/Media/AHSAANOW/News-Articles/ArticlePage/3



David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org
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TheMUBM
AHSFHS Master Researcher

75 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2019 :  17:42:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah I saw that. I mean the only reason I can think is that the seniors are graduating so it doesn't make much sense to count them, but I don't think it will make a huge difference unless a school just has a huge freshmen class as opposed to their senior class, which from my experience isn't generally a huge difference.
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svmounties
AHSFHS Member

1543 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2019 :  18:03:30  Show Profile  Visit svmounties's Homepage  Reply with Quote
David, as was alluded to above me, and the way I see it, if the reclassification is going to affect them, might as well make it count for the ones actually impacted by the new change.

Does anyone know if the enrollment numbers they use are anywhere online? I thought in the past they were, but I may be mistaken.

________________________________________________________________________

Shane Paschal
Shades Valley High School
Class of 1986
Go Mounties !

Edited by - svmounties on 11/01/2019 18:08:18
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dparker
Forum Admin

983 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2019 :  20:07:16  Show Profile  Visit dparker's Homepage  Reply with Quote
They are not online but are released in early December to the school principles for review. I do not think they go public until later that month. Unless you get lucky and someone shares a copy with you.



David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org
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dparker
Forum Admin

983 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2019 :  15:43:14  Show Profile  Visit dparker's Homepage  Reply with Quote
svmounties...

I was thinking about something that could affect the numbers for some schools. So they take out the seniors and add the freshmen at all the school. While I must admit I graduated a looooong time ago, I remember that there were a good number of students that left high school once they were 16.

Is that still the case. Possibly at the inner city schools or very rural schools they could have a higher number of students that quit school than say at Hoover, Vestavia Hills, Spanish Fort, Daphne or any of the private schools. I would think the dropout rate is near zero for these schools.

With that in mind some of the big city schools could drop a lot more than the above mentioned teams. That could drop some of the struggling programs down in classification. What do you think?

It might be a good idea. I know Georgia has done it that way as far back as I can remember. But they count enrollment not average daily attendance. So it was always difficult to compare Georgia and Alabama schools when it came to size.






David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org
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svmounties
AHSFHS Member

1543 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2019 :  18:43:15  Show Profile  Visit svmounties's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm pretty sure there is, especially the ones that need to go on to help with household bills and the like.

I know for SV, though it may not be this go rpund, but the JCIB school is moving to Fultondale in the near future. This will affect the overall enrollment for us when those students go elsewhere. It may not be enough to drop us a class, though.

________________________________________________________________________

Shane Paschal
Shades Valley High School
Class of 1986
Go Mounties !
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BamaJoe
AHSFHS Master Researcher

60 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2019 :  15:53:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cwak

How about region predictions. I'll try and stick to what I think I know. I don't foresee much class movement in the upper classes in the north. I would like to see better geographic regions.

7A
region 4 largely stays the same with only Florence and Albertville swapping places
6A
Could become a mess if Albertville moves and Scottsboro Southside stay 5A and Austin 7A. There's no way not to have at least one far flung region.
5A
my wheelhouse
Region 8
Arab, Boaz, Brewer, Crossville, Douglas, Guntersville, Scottsboro
Region 7
Ardmore, East Limestone, Hamilton, Jasper, Lawrence Co., Madison Co., Russelville,
Region 6
Alexandria, Corner, Etowah, Hayden, Mortimer Jordan, Sardis, Southside, West Point
Region 5
Center Point, Moody, Munford, Saint Clair County, Springville, John Carroll, Ramsay
Region 4
Briarwood, Central Clay County, Fairfield, Pleasant Grove, Sylacauga, Wenonah, Woodlawn


Do you have Mad Acad dropping out of 5A? If not they will have to fall into one of regions 7 or 8?

Go Eagles!
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cwak
AHSFHS Superstar Researcher

946 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2019 :  20:59:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah; with Madison Academy and St Pauls open, and behind the scenes, displeasure with the last reclassification. Along with the changes to the multiplier this round. I would be surprised if both don't move down this time. I personally think they both fit in the regions and classifications they're in now, but we'll see.
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Bulldog5
Starting Member

2 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2019 :  21:38:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Private vs Public in Mobile. I don?t think it is a well thought out argument to simply say that Fyffe has a great coaching staff and the community has built a great culture, and that the private schools only attract student athletes. Spanish Fort and Saraland seem to attract a few athletes. I think there a few great coaching staffs in the private schools. I?d like to see the statistics on which schools send the most football players to the next level. I dare sayVigor, Blount and Murphy have a few. UMS has won the last two state championships with how many D1 players, zero, how many players at the next level, zero. Not bad for a school that has the most National Merit Scholars, the most AP scholars and the highest average ACT scores in Mobile and Baldwin Counties.

With that said, if Big Government wants to level the distribution of success then the competitive balance rule is fine, IF it is applied to all schools and the multiplier is eliminated. If the private schools really have all the advantages they will be the only ones to move up and up and up, problem solved.

Edited by - Bulldog5 on 11/18/2019 21:44:02
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dparker
Forum Admin

983 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2019 :  23:03:45  Show Profile  Visit dparker's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bulldog5...
A response to you and anyone else willing to listen to my rant. I doubt there are many people in this state that have thought about this topic more than I have over the past 20 years.

You mention Saraland and Spanish Fort and both of those only solidify my thoughts. Both have great coaching staffs, Both raise money easier than other Mobile area schools. Both have some of the best facilities in the area. More importantly both can easily attract scholar students and top notch athletes. It is very easy to live in Spanish Fort or Saraland and work anywhere in Mobile County.

I have had several relatives that lived in Mobile and moved near Spanish Fort and Daphne so their kids could play sports and attend Bayside and Spanish Fort. All worked in Mobile.

I do agree with you that many private schools have excellent coaching staffs. UMS-Wright certainly has a great staff as any Bulldog fan would know. Also congrats for all the accolades at UMS-Wright. Not only do they attract athletes they attract the best students. No problem at all with that. Kids should go to any school they wish to get the best education. At least within the rules.

Remember, I am not anti-private school. I do not think private schools recruit any more than most public school. They do not need to recruit. They attract the best students and athletes. I just think the AHSAA is trying to fix something that has no fix.

Competitive balance on any level is not the answer for public or private schools. It is coming close to communism in my mind. Take from the rich and give to the poor. It is some world we live in today and not just in high school sports.

While I do not know what the answer is.... I just do not think competitive balance is the answer and will just punish teams that work harder than the others, public or private.

Do you know how many schools ever won a state championship in the 6A or 7A that was not within 20 miles of the three largest cities? Not many. Is that a coincidence? I think not. The suburb schools in 7A and 6A have an advantage and have for many years. But that is another topic for debate.

My points are not to argue with you at all. I just wished to expand on my thoughts on this topic. Please just take this as my rant and not pointed directly at anyone or any school.








David Parker
Administrator
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